302: How Toxic Thinking Led to Infidelity and How Managing Emotions Led to Healing with Mark and Jill Savage

Navigating emotions in marriage isn’t always easy, but the right mindset can make all the difference. Today, marriage coaches Mark and Jill Savage join us to discuss the importance of changing your mindset in marriage because when you change your thoughts, you change your relationship.

WHAT YOU’LL LEARN:

[04:23] Mark and Jill’s Story of Repairing Their Marriage After Infidelity
[12:11] The Concept of Emotional Constipation and Emotional Diarrhea
[15:15] How Did Emotions Play Into Their Marriage?
[19:48] How Can Couples Manage Their Toxic Thoughts and Emotions in Marriage?
[23:08] “Every Single Day We Have New Opportunities to Rewire Our Brains”
[31:44] The Importance of Daily Discipline & Changing Your Thoughts
[38:01] Alicia’s Reflections: What Are You Focusing on In Your Marriage?

[04:23] Mark and Jill’s Story of Repairing Their Marriage After Infidelity

Mark and Jill share that they have been married for 41 years and happily married for 31 of them. Throughout their marriage, they would go to counseling, get some help, do well, and then have a rough season, again and again. The problem was that no one was getting to the heart of their struggles – particularly for Mark. He was constantly dealing with discontentment and on top of that they had 10 difficult years of church ministry. Mark decided to transition out of it and start his own construction company.

For a while, this was good until, as Mark puts it, “I kept running into me.” He realized how much he found his identity in pastoring and he could not find himself outside of it. He was disappointed and confused. He found himself in a midlife crisis, had an affair, and left Jill and his children. He was pursuing this other relationship because he thought it was going to be the ticket to make him happy – and for a while it did.

In the midst of all of this, Jill’s world came crashing down. She thought they were least likely for this to happen and she begged God to tell her what to do. All she heard was “I want you to love him.” She thought, “You have to be kidding me. I do not know if You’ve noticed but he is not that loveable right now.” to which God replied, “Sometimes Jill, you aren’t either.” She realized that she did not know how to love when it was hard, only when it was easy and someone loved her back.

God took her on a journey of learning to love deeper and looking at her own stuff. She may not have caused her husband's infidelity but she says that she contributed to the dysfunction in their marriage. She was not sure if their marriage would make it but she still wanted to continue on this path of growth for herself. As she did this, Mark started to notice changes within her, and eventually, his other relationship fell apart.

Through this, Mark realized that the women in his life were not the problem, he was. He knew he needed help but did not know what to do. But on Easter Sunday in 2012, he had his own personal resurrection and surrendered fully to God like never before. To Jill, that was noticeable. In their separation, they realized that they had work to do before they could come back together. They both saw the change and growth within each other and were committed to repairing their relationship. The most important part was that Mark was not making these changes for Jill, he was making them for Christ.

[12:11] The Concept of Emotional Constipation and Emotional Diarrhea

This was the first time Mark and Jill dove into how their attachment and home of origin impacted them. Through this they learned that Jill was “emotionally constipated” and Mark had “emotional diarrhea.” In Jill’s home of origin, she knew she was loved, her parents supported her, and they went to church every Sunday, but they did not “do” emotions. When something happened they just said “You have to buck up.” So she ended up being this way as a wife and a mother.

Mark on the other hand is more sensitive and they also have sensitive children. She did not realize the impact she was making because it was all she knew and she viewed bucking up as a strength. There are elements of it that are a strength like not overreacting, not falling apart, and keeping a cool head during problems. But once she started to balance this out with comfort, empathy, compassion, and understanding – everything changed. They now call each other Jill 2.0 and Mark 2.0.

[15:15] How Did Emotions Play Into Their Marriage?

As Jill and Mark look back at the past versions of themselves, they reflect on how these out-of-control and shoved emotions played out in their marriage. Jill shares that Mark would get upset about something and she would dismiss and minimize it. She would try to fix it, not feel it, which led Mark to feel rejected, dismissed, and not needed.

Mark had a lot of negative messages around emotions growing up. When he was emotional, his stepdad would say that he was lazy, stupid, and that he did not matter. Those phrases were in his head all of the time and even if Jill did not directly say these things, when she minimized his emotions it led him back to that messaging. Mark shares that he did not know how to find his voice to feel confident and courageous. He would go with the flow and say it did not bother him but he would stuff his emotions away until he exploded. This led him to break furniture and punch holes in the wall – acting like a toddler in a 50-year-old body.

Mark and Jill both grew up in homes where emotions were not valued, yet they had completely different responses to how they dealt with them. Some of this has to do with genetics and temperament. Jill shares that she is a thinker and Mark is a feeler. He naturally has this sensitive side to him which could have played into their differences.

[19:48] How Can Couples Manage Their Toxic Thoughts and Emotions in Marriage?

When Mark and Jill work with a couple around their toxic thoughts, they start by listening intently for those messages as they have conversations. Then they begin to unpack those in sessions or in an intensive which is a three-day event at their home. Jill and Mark recommend the intensive because you can unpack the issue, bring healing to it, and then have a clear path forward in a few days. They help them understand their attachment style and how that has played out and they emphasize the negative messages when they reveal themselves, which happens easily.

Jill shares that something we can do today is to start paying attention to what your thoughts are, about your partner, yourself, and God. What we think will determine what we feel, which will inform our beliefs about ourselves or others, then that dictates what we do which gives us the results we are going to get. People think that it starts with our feelings, but it actually starts with our thoughts.

The Bible constantly says that we are to take our thoughts captive, we are to set our minds, and we are to renew our minds. And even God’s Word is saying, “Hey, your thinking is really leading the show. And if your thinking is leading the show, then you need to pay attention to your thoughts, because where your thoughts are is where you are going to go.” So if your thoughts about your partner are constantly negative and you are seeing all the bad that they are doing or did, then you will have a spotlight on the wrong thoughts. We have to move the spotlight to different thoughts about their strengths and the good things they do together.

Just like in my coaching practice, Jill and Mark work a lot with thought management. They help you identify where your thoughts are, understand why they might be holding you back, and discover how to replace them with healthier, more constructive thoughts. It is all about rewiring your brain and building a new mental highway that leads to growth, resilience, and stronger relationships.

[23:08] “Every Single Day We Have New Opportunities to Rewire Our Brains”

Again, Mark and Jill speak the same language I do when it comes to coaching. Everything starts with our thoughts, what we emphasize, what we reinforce, and what new patterns we create. The great news is that the brain is plastic, and every day, we have a new opportunity to remake our thoughts. Every morning, God gives us a new chance and 1500 neurons to start over.

Jill reminds us that if we do not choose to renew our minds, we are going to waste those new neurons. Romans 8:5-6 says, “For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh. And those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.”

So are we going to use these new neurons for death or life? If we are not intentional we will just stay in this place of death all of the time and this is where we get stuck. This is where Mark found himself and even though he met with counselors, it was all behavior management. They were never identifying the thoughts that were keeping him in this trap. But once he began to understand this, it just made sense to change his thoughts.

Every day we have the chance to grow in sanctification in God, but we also have the chance to grow in sanctification in our minds about the choices that we make. God cannot force us to change our thought patterns and we are the ones who deal with it inside so we have to implement these two steps:

1. Notice it and see what is going on

2. Have the self-discipline to be able to see it and say, “Do I want to keep sitting in this pattern?” And if not, how are you going to move through it?

We get to take responsibility for that and if we do not do this, we are going to keep using those beautiful new neurons every morning for the same things.

When Mark and Jill were in their own personal healing processes, Mark decided to identify his top 10 negative thoughts and flip the script for them. He came up with a truth that battled each one of those and every day he would speak his truth. Then for that Christmas, their son had Mark send these truths to him and he typed them up and framed them for a gift. This is still on their wall and they share them with people who join them for intensives. Mark now lives these truths and they have completely changed his thinking. Jill reminds us that we have to do the work for ourselves because no one is going to do it for us.

Mark recalls how, years ago, his mind began to change in ways that initially scared him. But over time, he reached a place of calm. He now recognizes that the quieting of his mind was the Lord’s work. After spending 60 years with constant mental noise, comparing it to the clatter of Disney World, he finally experiences peace. When challenges arise, Mark no longer gets overwhelmed by anxious thoughts. Instead, he leans on a simple but powerful mantra that continues to ground him which is, “I can stay steady and stable; God's gonna show me what to do.”

The work that Mark described is very similar to the training I use in the “Christian Mindset Makeover” and in my 1:1 coaching called brain priming. We break down the subconscious patterns that are there and rebuild them in our minds. It takes about 63-67 days for a new pattern to start so we first figure out the core messages you have been believing, then replace them with the words that you need to hear from God. We create a priming that you can listen to once in the morning and once at night since those are the times when the subconscious mind is more open. It is amazing how much this clears up because the brain starts operating from a different soundtrack. This is where science and the Scripture come together beautifully and support each other.

[31:44] The Importance of Daily Discipline & Changing Your Thoughts

This process works but it takes daily discipline. You have to speak these things aloud or record yourself speaking them and play them while you are driving. When your brain hears your voice saying it, it reinforces these patterns and makes it more doable. Jill shares that what you think informs what you feel, which informs what you believe, which informs what you do, which informs the results that you get. The problem is that a lot of counseling focuses on the “doing” but this is short term. When people get stuck and say “We went to counseling for three months and it didn't make any difference” it is because they focused on behavior management and this change will not last long because you are not digging into what is informing the behavior.

As we discussed earlier, Mark and Jill realized that their counseling sessions had only focused on managing behaviors, not addressing the underlying thoughts driving those behaviors. When everything eventually fell apart, they knew they had to dig deeper. This led them to explore attachment theory, which helped them understand how their early experiences shaped their thinking patterns. By shifting their focus to thought management, they experienced real breakthroughs in their healing and growth—not just in their marriage but also in their parenting and relationship with Jesus.

Mark reflected on a past Christmas when he asked his children what they remembered about their childhood. Their response was difficult to hear, they recalled how emotionally out of control he had been as a father. His heart sank, realizing the lasting impact of his past behavior. However, his children also reassured him that he was no longer that person. They described him as steady and consistent, a reflection of the growth and transformation he had undergone.

While Mark wished he had understood these issues sooner, he also recognized the beauty of redemption. His experiences now allow him to support other couples in their journeys. They remind him that growth takes time and that giving ourselves grace is essential, whether we regret actions from decades ago, last year, or even last week.

[38:01] Alicia’s Reflections: What Are You Focusing on In Your Marriage?

This conversation is such a beautiful marriage between our relationships, our thought life, and learning how there is this strong link between the two. We are not talking about this in the church so I love that they are shining a spotlight on it.

And speaking of shining a spotlight, Jill talked about shining a spotlight on the things that you want to continue to build up in your mind about your spouse, and it got me thinking about a book my friend Jeff Barnes wrote called “The Wisdom of Walt” (he will be on the podcast soon so keep an eye out for that episode!)

In this book, he talks about Disney and how the principles of Walt Disney can teach us a lot about life, leadership, and mindset. One of the things he talks about in this book is the idea that when Walt designed Main Street, he created the buildings so that the first floor are all full size. But as the buildings go up, the second floor is only three-quarters of the size of a typical floor and the third floor is only half the size of a typical floor. So it is the power of perspective that when you are looking at the building, it looks bigger than it actually is. The point of that is to keep the focus on that bottom part.

This made me think about what Jeff talks about in the book about this illusion and how it pertains to what we focus on. What is the “main floor” that you are focusing your mindset and energy on in your marriage, life, goals, and how you view moving forward? Are you focusing on the ways that this spouse is not doing things right or not living up to your expectations? Or are you focusing on these other areas that are also true but might be harder to not naturally believe in?

This does not mean we do not listen to the parts of us that are saying something is an issue, especially if there is abuse. I am talking about those everyday annoyances that we have in any relationship, but especially marriage where we are living with this person day in and day out.

To use a brain science concept, are we giving glucose and sugar to the thoughts that are positively helping us strengthen our marriage or are we giving glucose to the things that are breaking it down? We get to decide which bucket we are going to be feeding right and which level, like on Main Street, what percentage of it we are going to be focusing on as we are moving through the path.

I highly encourage you to reach out to Mark and Jill. They are wonderful people that have so much wisdom around working through difficult things. When we think about walking through marriage issues, it is so helpful to have someone who has been there. They have been in the trenches too and they are now using this to help. That is what God does, he brings our muck and makes it into ministry.

You can find them on their website, where they have a great quiz and other amazing resources.

RESOURCES:

Tired of up-and-down feelings stealing your peace, sabotaging your relationships, and filling your mind with self-defeating thoughts? If so, make sure to get my new book, “Emotional Confidence: 3 Simple Steps to Manage Emotions with Science and Scripture”.

Connect with marriage coaches Mark and Jill Savage

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